openourminds-deactivated2013022 asked: i'm sorry. you know everything. even the potential outcomes of anything. but you're right; there is no want to end the grasp on the fed from the outside. if there is, they can send us whirling down depression like the did post JFK... duh.. hence obama not passing the trillion dollar coin. had he, your fear of leveraging the FED more would have been far from reality for if that were true it would be a lot less opposed. if THE coin did so: it would have passed under obama. but he doesn'thave balls
I never said I know everything.
But I do know that creating a fiat asset out of thin air in order to use it as leverage to borrow more of a fiat currency from a private bank is no way of ending the stronghold of that bank.
It’s the equivalent of needing more money from your bank so you forge a paper that says you own China and taking that to the bank as an asset to secure a loan against. You don’t actually own China, just like THE Coin wouldn’t actually have a trillion dollars worth of assets behind it. If the US Government actually had a trillion dollars worth of assets, they would just use them and not have to mint a stupid coin in the first place.
The entire reason we need to mint THE Coin is because we are going to hit the debt ceiling and the House might not allow the Federal Gov’t to borrow anymore money so since it can’t borrow anymore, it will just invent it’s own money, because it has the power to still mint certain forms of currency like a platinum coin, and then it will send that coin to the Federal Reserve as a deposit so that it can write out checks.
I don’t understand why this much is hard to understand and where you’re getting the ridiculous idea that minting THE Coin would be the start of ending the Fed. It would not be. Not in any way, shape or form. We would use THE Coin as a deposit with the Federal Reserve bank.
Here’s the grim reality: We (The Federal Gov’t) have already spent money. We are now being invoiced for our expenditures. The problem is that we are flush out of cash. We need to borrow more to pay for what we’ve already consumed. The problem is that the House, the arm of government that must approve all spending, won’t let us use the credit card anymore (borrowing) by not increasing the debt ceiling. So we have one of two choices, find another way to pay for these items or default on the debt. So Obama can, in theory, ask the Treasury, who he personally appoints the director of, to help him out and go around the House and the legislation.
This is like going to a restaurant with your wife, ordering all sorts of things you aren’t going to eat and then when the check comes, you have no cash in your pocket to pay for it. In fact, you have no money at all, your bank accounts all read zero and you don’t even have a single red cent in your couch cushions. So, you now have to ask your wife, who has all the family credit cards, to hand one over, but even these are maxed out because you’ve been spending like crazy. So you ask her to call and ask for a higher spending limit and she says ‘no way’.
But you have to pay for the dinner some how, right? And you’re running out of options. So you ask your son to help you out, and he will, because you pay his allowance and he’s on your side. So your son fabricates a deed for an item you don’t actually own and uses it to borrow money from the bank and gives it to you to pay for dinner.
Well, that’s exactly where this country is right now. We already ordered and ate our dinner but we haven’t paid for it yet and we probably can’t unless we either have our wives get another credit card or invent another fiat asset.
So, in short, no, the trillion dollar coin is a stupid idea but so is a debt ceiling when dealing with a fiat currency and so is dealing with a fiat currency when you have zero fiscal responsibility or recourse.
In other words, the whole system is bullshit and the possibility of THE Coin being a real thing proves it.
openourminds-deactivated2013022 asked: LOL. no the coin doesn't have to be a trillion dollars. just like the FED loaning $ doesn't have to be backed by any standard. just a few keyboard crunches. the coin would be issued to PAY THE BANKS BACK with money we create out of thin aoir just as they do. it's playing their game back at them. we pay our debt back, issue a real SOVEREIGN MONETARY SYSTEM and the banks don't twist our arm like after JFK did the same. a trillion dollar coin with real value? LOL. you're too into the head space.
You’re right, the coin doesn’t have to contain a trillion dollars worth of platinum (or even be backed by a trillion dollars worth of platinum or anything for that matter). But, you would essentially be creating another fiat currency if it wasn’t backed by anything.
I also think you’re very confused by who wants and benefits from the Federal Reserve and a fiat currency system with valuation based solely on confidence. The Federal Government does not want to end the relationship with the Federal Reserve. The Reserve helps debt disappear and gives the government endless money to spend while the government lets the Federal Reserve leech off profits via the taxation arm of the government all while the government protects the value of that currency through the military arm of the state.
So, no, THE Coin isn’t trying to End the Fed, it’s giving it more power. We aren’t trying to “pay our debt back” with THE Coin, we are trying to borrow even more money by using THE Coin as leverage to obtain more Federal Reserve notes.
openourminds-deactivated2013022 asked: trillion dollar coin: pay banks back: reinstate sovereign monetary system; banks stop loaning to state, state loans to banks now. problem beginning to be solved.
I don’t think THE Coin is to become a loaning agent from State to Bank. It’s the opposite, actually. THE Coin becomes an asset which we (The Federal Government) will use to leverage with the Bank (The Federal Reserve) so that the Bank will loan us more money so that we can continue to spend.
This is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. In fact, not only are we now creating money out of thin air, we would also start creating assets out of thin air.
You see, if THE Coin isn’t actually made of a trillion dollars in platinum, it is just a fiat currency, but we aren’t using it as such. instead, we are using it as collateral or leverage to obtain another fiat currency, US Dollars, from the Federal Reserve.
Anyway, I haven’t yet looked into THE Coin with much detail because I’ve been dismissive of both the idea and the possibility that our government is that stupid or irresponsible. Minting THE Coin would be a public admittance that our currency and our system are completely arbitrary and our money is valueless and our system is imaginary.
Maybe I should look into the idea more because you never know just how crazy politicians are, but as far as I’ve read, we’d mint THE Coin and send it to the Fed as a deposit for more federal liquidity.
I may be completely wrong on this but as far as I know, that’s how it would work out.
Barack Obama using veterans and elderly as political pawns to strong arm the GOP into raising the debt ceiling, which I predicted four days ago:
Uh…no. That’s not “strong-arming”. That’s “telling the truth”. Obama doesn’t have the ability to control Social Security, medicare, etc.; fact of the matter is, they would be delayed in accordance with the inability of the federal government to be able to reap funds without a debt-ceiling increase. It would happen regardless of who was President at the time. It happens independently of the President.
President Barack Obama’s blanket statement Monday that “Social Security checks and veterans benefits will be delayed” if Congress doesn’t raise the debt limit masked the options open to the government if it is forced to operate in a severe fiscal pinch. There are many, although none pleasant. If Washington can’t keep borrowing to ensure all its bills are paid, it will need to decide which expenses to cover and which might have to slide until a deal comes together.
It’s possible, but not preordained, that Social Security recipients, veterans and beneficiaries of other cherished programs would take a hit. The administration has choices in how to spread the pain.
Highlighting a threat to the most popular products of the government is a time-honored Washington tactic for turning up the heat on the other side to negotiate and settle
Who actually gives a shit about the National Debt?
Why, especially, do any libertarians care?
I say, lower all taxes to zero, and raise the debt limit to infinity. Let the US government borrow as much as it is able, as long as it is able, to fund its craziness.
That’s pretty much what it does already. Who gives a shit about a “balanced congressional budget”, tho? I say, spend spend spend spend. If The country goes broke, good. If the country manages to stay afloat on nothing but borrowing, well then we all get free shit so that’s good too.
Since money doesn’t exist and it’s just value-through-perception, this is somewhat possible as long as all the countries of the world are willing to keep up the illusion.
Then again, what happens when all that money floods through the system and inflation kicks in, worldwide?